Man United Casual Whooligans?
July 10, 2008
People love to prove how much of a proper United fan they are these days. It’s fucking pathetic. Proclamations to total strangers don’t convince anyone. Only mates who’ve known you as a red from early childhood can vouch, unless you’re a member of some kind of gang. Some of the more memorable battles aren’t even about United though. One in particular springs to mind. It was a typical Saturday afternoon on Prestwich Village in 1982; the usual assortment of hardcases, slimeballs, dervishes and drug dealers drawn to the various pubs like debris to a plughole. The Wilton was always the place to be. The place had a vault and a lounge. The lounge was a split-level affair; the bar was off to the left back then, running perpendicular to Bury New Road. To the right, down a short flight of steps was an area known as the Pit. You walked in the Wilton expecting to receive a flying bottle to the bridge of the nose on a Tuesday afternoon, so imagine what it was like at the weekend. Most of us practically lived there. On this occasion it held a considerable quantity of local iniquity, particularly the Pit. Approximately ten past twelve and it was fucking rocking. That was when a coachload of Southport fans arrived. The Southport lads made 2 huge mistakes; one, they were Scousers. And two, they waltzed into the Wilton gabbing loudly, casting that confident glow a team that feels relatively unshiftable has about it. The atmosphere in the Pit suddenly altered, then altered again; from languid, hungover Daily Mirrorville to bristling let’s-ave-itville to gleeful beams of anticipation, especially when it dawned who they were and why they were in town: Prestwich Heys had drawn Southport in the FA Cup. The best part was, the Scousers seemed up for it, and within two minutes there had been several aggressive exchanges. Kezz immediately took charge of the situation by launching several bottles in rapid succession at their collective heads, a move that was instantly aped by fifteen or so others. The Mickeys couldn’t get back out through the door fast enough and were pelted, punched, kicked and head-butted all the way down a side-street across Bury New Road. Unfortunately the street led nowhere and their mob was rapidly ground down to ones and twos, flailing about the village with wide eyes and shat pants. Much later, at about nine in the evening, two scouts reported some Scouse stragglers. Three of us legged them through the deserted, silent precinct and across the car-park. One went into Prestwich train station, up onto the platform. I followed him onto a waiting train. He was completely shitting himself as I approached him. Then I realised the train was about to move; I’d have to go to Heaton Park and catch another train back. He was lucky.
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Ian first off great book.Strange thing for me buying a book in my 40s and reading about lads I knew 20 odd years ago but fuck me it was true the book for me was like being put in a time machine back to the 79 to 82 period.Back then 79 hanging around town and going to united coupled with the fairly new nameless thing I was getting to meet lads from all over Manchester.The first three lads I met from Prestwich were [using the names in your book] Paul S then also known as Punk with Kurtis and Matt H who I knew from school.One point I must make here at this stage of the game Manchester was not wall to wall Boys it was pretty much a select band the mass movement happened the next year.Anyway slowly I became more and more pally with Paul S through knocking around town and fighting the mods heavy rockers the punks and any other tribes or general divvys that were around back then.As you know thats what the lads in town got up to back with plenty of shoplifting for good measure. Moving on to October 1980 my mum was well pissed off with me due to numerous trips to Germany decided to sort me out by getting me a job I was gutted but with hindsight she did me a favour.The job was in Prestwich at Wynd Up records and the man given the job of showing me the ropes none other than Martin Brown and straight away we got on like a house on fire as soon as Paul S was mentioned and of the nice trainers we had on.From then its me and Martin thick as thieves who then proceeds to introduce me to some of the lads featured in Perry Boys.First off a very young Adam G who even then ]]n struck me as clued up.Next the one and only John Clucas the guy you described brilliantly.I must confess a few tears were shed and a beer raised when reading your book that John had died and remembering the times I spent with John I was still doing a few bits with in the early 90s many years after that first meeting outside Greasy Joes.The next one I met John G always fine with me but quite in a cool way. After that I started going in the Wilton with Martin and Paul and here was to see and meet over the next couple of years most of Prestwichs finest.So here we go Billy Brown the quieter of the twins but not to be underestimated and who was always good with me.Then Oggy who was going with the twins sister at the time.Oggy a dangerous hombre but a good man to have on your side.Another guy you mention Tongy who worked with us again a good lad.Also a kid who worked with us Bri S this man never stopped laughing but that was what I liked about Bri he was always up for a giggle though a little bit in awe of Martin and Paul S who was also working with us.There were a few heads I recognised from United firstly Salty who I had seen many a time at the match but had never spoke until I started popping in the Wilton which you again described so perfectly.Another face I had seen at the match and had spoken to a few times the man mountain Big Col H.I remember that bus the tales were legendary.Another place we would go to Reillys the snooker place where you could witness in action the worlds coolest snooker player your mate Churchy that was one cool looking dude.There were plenty of other lads I knew back then but thanks to your book I remembered the main ones but my top three were Paul S Martin and John Clucas because I spent the most time with them.They would come over to me in Failsworth or we would go to town to a club great days the boys together looking good.Individuality was very important back then to try have clothes most others didnt have.You are spot on this period was so exciting to be part of we were lucky.Just before I go the stall in Oasis gets a mention that did take me back.The reason being Alan the guy ran it used to buy a lot of stuff of me and my mates. Well Im gonna do one.Ian you made one 40 something very happy with your book because for me it documented the time superbly maybe I understood like you because we lived.Good luck with your next book. Phil.
Hi Ian, that smuggler I asked about was a well-known United lad and also I found this site the other day and thought it may interest you.
http://www.mdmarchive.co.uk/archive/showvenues.php
Great site by the way.
Millsy. ( blumphy )
Cheers mate, that is an interesting site. Makes you wonder how many others are lurking out there…’cos you need something to read at 2 AM on a Sunday when the missus is in bed and you’re playing online…
Cheers,
Ian
Ian, I’m in the process of buying your book, “Perry Boys”, so I haven’t read it yet and can’t comment. I have, however, had discussions with you before on UWS. I’m interested in a couple of things.
Firstly, have you read Tony O’Neill’s books, “Red Army General” and “The Men in Black”? If so, do you believe the former to be an accurate description of the scene in the 70s and early 80s when you were knocking around?
Secondly, did you have a favourite designer that you associated yourself with over the rest?
Personally, (and I know it will sound clichéd and the brand has become too mainstream and damaged by clueless fashionistas jumping on the bandwagon) I was a huge admirer of designer Massimo Osti before his death and I still wear his Stone Island and C.P. Company brands more than any other.
What’s with the Tessuti link matey? Do you work for them? A bit of SEO is it?
As for the 70s, I was a kid but I do remember loads of flare-boys steaming about in massive crews and giving it plenty, so I’m sure Mr. O’ Neil had it right…
Too many brands to think of just being associated with one, innit? All those little fly-by-nights no-one ever mentions, like Aitch, Second Image and French Connection, not to mention Peter Werth polos, the original “t-shirt jumpers” as my mate Kenny Lewis used to call them…
No mate, the Tessuti link is not “Search Engine Optimization”. I am a Business with Marketing student but I don’t work for them, I just buy quite a bit of gear off the website and thought I’d add it as this is a website exploring Casual Culture.
I understand your point about there are too many brands to be associated with just one. Certain firms wear certain colours and/or brands whilst steering clear from others, though. Did the Salford Mob you ran with have certain brands they would steer well clear off and did you dress individually or as a group? I’m thinking of the likes of United’s “Men In Black” and a Citeh mob I’ve seen wearing black Henri Lloyd jackets, I think they were “The Guvnors” or “Young Guvnors”. A brand identity if you like…